Amy's friend in New York was thinking of attending a new church. Amy did some web investigation and found red flags. She wrote up her research in this article. On the whole, it is very helpful; in a few areas we think she overreacted a bit due to her Assembly experience. What do you think?
Just by looking at the website, you see they are marketing to people who feel like they're outcasts. As you know, such people are prime targets for shepherding / discipling groups.
They don't have solid information about what they teach, who their staff is, what their qualifications are, etc....Their pastor is apparently qualified to run a church on the sole basis that "God led him to." His short bio says almost nothing about him, so I looked at his interests for clues. He likes hanging out at the beach or pool in lounge chairs and taking cruises. Cruises are expensive. Where is he getting the money to pay for them? Nothing is said about how he makes a living.
River Kids, their children's ministry, has some scary stuff in it for me. The first thing that caught my eye was the word "shepherding," along with the seemingly innocent explanation.
"We believe that transformation occurs within small groups, so we have coaches that will care for and “shepherd” your child throughout the year. We believe it is important to teach children how to serve God as soon as they are ready." Not very innocent to MY eye, but I thought, it could be a fluke. Also, their practice of turning in your child like a coat with a claim check and ONLY being able to retrieve your child with that stub is beyond weird. No school does that. In normal situations, child caretakers get to KNOW the child's parents and identify them THAT way. To me, that's a control tactic.
Here's what they have to say about their
Life Groups:
Life Groups - These small groups, which consist of 4 to 12 people
and are held in homes, parks, and other locations, will begin
very soon
[
italics
mine]. The Life Groups consist of relevant,
interactive discussion from the study of the Bible, refreshments,
and living in a loving community with others. If you are
interested in hosting one of these dynamic groups please E-mail
us.
Women's Life Group: Study of Ruth - Tuesday 6:30 p.m. Location: 12-A Allyson Ct, Albany, NY 12205.
Discovering God's Will - Wednesday 6:30 p.m. Location: 12-A Allyson Ct, Albany, NY 12205
Learning to Love - Friday 6:30 p.m. 66 Rapple Dr., Albany, NY 12205
Notice that on one hand, it says these groups "will begin very soon" and asks for hosts, but on the other hand lists ACTUAL ADDRESSES where these groups are meeting! Because, in fact, they have been meeting for quite some time on a weekly basis! In fact, ALL this church has listed as "official" activities on their OTHER website (yes, there IS another website!) is "gatherings" and "life groups!" "Living in a loving community with others" particularly caught my eye.
Speaking of Gatherings, under "Service Times & Directions, nothing other than the click banner draws attention to the fact that "10:30" is the time of their WEEKLY service, because that's not what they're advertising. They're advertising their "Launch" (whatever that is; they've been going for quite some time now) and "Comeback Events" that they probably want to recruit you at. They ALSO don't tell you that the listed address is a middle school -- after all, people MIGHT not come if they knew that! (These people used to meet in a community rec center -- beginning to sound familiar?)
Their
Core
Vision statement seems meant to be overtly unobjectionable
("Strategic Service" is a masterwork of "buzzword compliance"),
but two parts disturb me:
Authentic Community
Accountability, belonging, care and spiritual growth
happen best with relationally-connected Christ followers.
Intentional Discipleship
We are responsible to pass along to others the knowledge,
skills and opportunities that have been entrusted to us.
The use of "accountability" as the FIRST descriptive word in "community" is a HUGE red flag for me, and "Intentional Discipleship", while the description is totally bland, seems to confirm this impression. The use of "Christ followers" is also significant, as you shall see..
Well, all this was enough to make me start digging for more clues as to WHAT this church was really about. I found their old website and some very interesting things that did NOT make it to their new website. Really silly to have both websites up with almost identical URL's (one is .com and the other is .org) when you have stuff to hide. Tsk, tsk. They have mostly the same stuff on the old website with some glaring exceptions:
Mission
To show living proof of a loving God to a watching world by loving, living, and sharing.
Loving (worship) Loving means worshipping God. When we worship God, we express our love to Him. The only way we can express true love to God and worship Him is through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We call that person a Christ-follower. At River of Life, we believe that as Christ-followers, we should worship God.
Living (discipleship and fellowship). Living starts with helping people understand that the Christian life involves more than just believing - it also includes belonging. We then strive to help Christ-followers grow in their spiritual maturity and become fully developed followers of Christ. Because the Christian life is one of constant growth and development, we are focused on providing Biblical principles that can be applied to every day life.
Sharing (evangelism & serving) Another key mission of River of Life is to reach out to people who do not attend a local church. We encourage River of Life people to invest in the lives of their friends, family, neighbors and co-workers, and then invite them to attend River of Life so that they will hear and understand what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ. We also encourage our people to use their God given talents and abilities to serve others in some capacity whether it be inside or outside.Vision
River of Life Church will be a loving community of transformed people demonstrating God’s love. We will be a reproducing church that seeks to empower people to make an eternal impact in Albany, North America, and the World.
This incredibly key information did NOT get onto the new website. I found the following things significant:
1. They came up with their very own name for Christians: "Christ-followers." Remember when we were the "saints" and that set us apart from all other Christians?
2. Again, this "discipleship and fellowship" thing in relation to "belonging."
3. Blatant encouragement to evangelize -- an expectation that you WILL drag your relatives, friends, acquaintances, and anybody you can to church with you. Obviously, they left that out because evangelizing is the LAST thing their disenfranchised target market wants to do, and it would obviously give them away as what they truly are: a fundamentalist Christian church. This is bad because they are trying to suck in people who, among other things, have probably REJECTED fundamentalist Christianity (my friend had) and are looking for alternatives.
4. What is this "reproducing church" we're-going-to-take-over-the-world stuff anyway? Well, yeah, WE know what it is, but their readers probably don't!
If there was any doubt that they are ACTUALLY a fundamentalist Christian church, this book, which they're GIVING AWAY in exchange for your personal information and "learning a little more about you"(!!!) seals the deal. (The book ALSO didn't make it to the new website.) The author, Andy Stanley, is a prominent Christian minister educated at Dallas Theological Seminary. He was a Baptist minister for awhile before starting North Point Ministries. He seems solid enough, but his decidedly evangelical gospel, especially as set forth in his book, which was praised by a Calvinist, is NOT something this church wants to clearly identify itself with at the moment!
Well, there are thousands of evangelical churches across the country, but the vast majority of them identify themselves as such. This church is lying through its teeth and exhibiting other worrisome signs. Granted, all this is JUST from online information and no actual experience, but it seems pretty fishy to me.
Back to topCruises are expensive indeed but ministries have done it for years. Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, and Chuck Smith are among a few examples. Generally, folks who go on these have to pay their own way. On a similar note, stage lights, sound systems, air conditioning, lavish Christmas decorations for the sanctuary etc. are expensive but mega-churches afford them. If that use of money bothers you, you should go to a smaller church.
The word "shepherding" is used quite often and does not have to mean
a rigid shepherding-movement type of arrangement. It means that they are
set up to have a more relational children’s program than old-style
Sunday school. You will probably find that in these shepherding groups,
they are reciting memory verses and answering age-appropriate questions
relative to the lesson.
“We believe it is important to teach children how to serve God as soon
as they are ready." Most Christian parents actually want this. I doubt
it is like the Assembly where folks thought the kids ready as soon as
they could lie still on a mat. Generally these programs are more along
the line of “you can serve God by sharing with others”. I doubt if you
will find them leading the first graders to the park to hand out tracts.
As for the practice of the stub or ticket to pick up your kids, many
large churches do this out of necessity. With so many split homes, a
church is liable if a mother drops off her kid and a stranger or an
ex-husband comes and picks the kid up and something happens to that
child. So for the church’s own protection, most have some form of check
in/out system. This is actually a good thing. You will probably also
find that they have a strong policy about what men can do (no changing
diapers or taking to restroom), sick policy, etc.
In general, I would say that most churches (even the large ones)
don't have good web writers on staff so they often do a poor job of
communication on their website. Most church websites are poorly done.
The best way is to go to the church, observe, and talk to the actual
people.
I would say some questions would be:
1. Does the church allow and encourage parents to visit and be a part of the children’s program?
2. Is there accountability of funds? Can you get the church’s annual statement?
3. Is the pastor willing to discuss the funding of the cruise? Can you go if you want?
4. Is the pastor willing to discuss his theological credentials? Does the church have a statement of faith?
5. What type of church government do they have? Are the elders willing to talk to you? How do you feel when you talk with them? Do they listen?
6. Are you comfortable with their doctrine or emphasis. Are you more comfortable with tighter, rigorous Bible exposition or are you comfortable with the more spontaneous, “the Lord led me to say this” style?
7. Is there a children's minister who is willing to discuss the children's ministry philosophy and policy?"
However, "bad motives" surrounding a church ministry can develop without a minister or church being consciously aware that they are developing. The kind of vapid "God talk" that Dave alludes to can demonstrate a lack of care re. the dangers of not being aware of ones own sinful dispositions toward being self centered vs. a love for God and his people. Those pastors who lack the humility to understand their own human weakness in re. to the dangers of being in a place of authority may never have planned to fall into the practices of abusive control, but without such "taking heed to yourself" problems will occur that could spring from such neglect.
The response of a church leader (leaders, or the church as a group) to being questioned will tell us more than anything else. If the pastor becomes defensive in any manner while being asked, (as in being dismissive of the questions, etc.) it is a big red flag.
This is one great service we as former cult members can provide to leaders in the above mode. We can't slip into our old Assembly behavior of supporting leaders like this by making excuses for them----- if a pastor/ministry refuses to honestly receive critical evaluation of his/their teaching and practices he is in a very dangerous place.
A spiritual leader is an extremely important position to occupy and must be practiced with great humility and genuine concern for the members of the church. Those pastors who are "my ministry, my group, etc." focused will not be serving God or his children---- rather their own needs. A healthy ministry / church / pastor will be Gospel centered and will be intent on "building up" the faith of the members----- vs. self centered and controlling.
So, I say let's look these leaders right in the eye and ask them what they mean by what they say and try to help them think carefully about what it truly means to serve God and to strengthen His children.